From: Hi, I found your website and it's just great, in fact just what I needed because it answers a lot of basic guestions. I especially like it because you explain the positions of the different traditional groups. Thanks, Ricky

From: Vincent Paul ALcazar. (Website: I happened upon your Web site, by some circuitous way but I am glad I found it. I agree with your statements and I basically hold the same beliefs. With your permission, I will link it to my web site. I'm adding numerous new pages so, as it is with most Web pages, it is never complete but always under construction.

I have been in and through the traditionalist route, joining email lists here and there, unsubscribing from some, getting kicked out from others. I may have come across your name, maybe not. If you know Pete Vere, the Sacred-Heart list,etc., then we have something in common. Ut in omnibus Deus glorificetur.

From: Barbara ( Dear Griff, Whew! Wow! I've started reading your book plus some of the other info on you site, and I am really excited! Seems like I can become quite the student and not leave my cozy little butler's pantry turned computer room. Thank you for sharing your site--I am learning so much so fast that I've had trouble sleeping this week. Maybe I shouldn't start so late, but the days are too short! Today after mass I came away with such a scary thought--if so many are trying and succeeding in tearing down the True Church, what does that bode for our time? Makes one wonder if crazy Yeats weren't a little right. But you know, after weeping and fighting in the Anglican Church for so long, I just wish the True Church would be there like it should, do you know what I mean? In prayerful obedience, Barbara

From: We have come across :


A Guide to the Traditional Roman Catholic Movement

by Griff Ruby

This is an excellent work, showing the intrinsic unity of the true Catholic Church (as opposed to the Novus Ordo official establishment). It is written to help those who have had no theological training to understand the crisis in the Church and possible solutions.

There are many interesting links on this page to other books Griff has written and various other good Catholic sites.

I'm sure Griff would be kind enough to send the URL list, for I found the site using a search engine, saved the files to my hard disk, but forgot to bookmark the URL.

From: John Hixson ( I was stunned at how great your web site is! I'm not talking about the design (Which is great) but the substance. I have been a Traditional Catholic since the eighties but have not come across on the web a better compilation of sources and thought! God bless and I will be visiting you more often.

From: Ralph Gasbarro. Dear Griff, GOD BLESS YOU and thank you Very much for your very helpful reply and your web site which I will start to read now!

Thanks again Very Much

From: Mary Ann Panevska. Dear Mr. Ruby,

After responding to Inside the Vatican's online survey of Vatican II, I reviewed the replies and saw your reference to your website, which I have now visited.

God bless you for the enormous work you are doing! You have provided a wealth of information, which I shall be viewing in the coming days/weeks.

Thank you.

From: My eyes are bleary from trying to absorb your webpage. I haven't gotten through it all yet but I just wanted to say that the site was a balm to a battered, bruised & weary soul. All was lucidly expressed. I especially appreciate that there's no misspelled words or incorrect English (typos though- surly you have for surely in one place). Misspelled & misused words are my pet peeve.

Your allegory of the tree was perfect. I used to compare the church to a cross that had layers & layers of paint applied over the years & we needed to look at the true wood instead of the paint. I see now that I was standing by the billboard watching a succession of signs being slathered on-some banal, some blasphemous & others just stupid. After while I couldn't stand it & simply sat in the shade of a few other trees, convinced that both the billboard & the majestic tree were full of worms. I'm now back at the stump & starting to dig & heartened by how many people are here. I thought I was the last one left on the planet.

From: Peter Wimberley ( Dear Griff

Since I got your mail, I have read your book with the greatest interest. I found it such exciting reading that I'm afraid I rushed through it too fast - so now I've started from the beginning again. Although I've been reading a lot of traditional literature the last 5 - 7 years, much of what you wrote was new for me. Thankyou. I was particularly grateful for your honest account of the Sedevacantists. I have subscriptions to The Roman Catholic, Reign of Mary, and Abbe Nantes, all of which I find extremely nourishing spiritually, but at the same time felt guilty about them. Perhaps I feel a bit sad about your conclusion regarding St. Benedict's Center, as I love their books, calenders and tapes. In fact I am working my way through Bro. Francis' tapes on the psalms at the moment. For the first time in my life (I'm 55) the psalms are touching my heart, as their rich treasures are opened up for me. Also I love Fr. Feeney's writings - also his marvellous sense of humour. Your way of making me see the oneness of the three groups was also very gratifying. Thankyou.

From: William Myers ( Dear Mr. Ruby,

Greetings! Let me first say, after reading your history, praise God for your return to the Church! I am developing (trying to) an apostolate against the Jehovah's Witnesses, and it's good to see someone who escaped!

To introduce myself, my name is William Myers. I am 16, and will be baptized at St. Gertrude the Great's this weekend. I just wandered upon your page, and I must commend you for your spectacular publication! It is a wonderful concise description of sedevacantism and traditionalism. I hope, with God's help, to enter the priesthood under Bishop Dolan (from the Msgr. Thuc lineage), and it is so good to see fellow sedevacantists such as yourself who are also willing to fight for the faith.

God Bless you, and please keep up your holy work!


From: Missy Farber ( Dear Griff,

Thank you for the reference to your book; I read it every time I have a moment. It was lovely to see your wedding picture and your wife in the personal section.

I have been browsing the crc site since the beatifications of June 13 of Jacinta and Francisco.

I have also read their account of the eucharistic miracle at Moure which was very interesting. I have to admit when first viewing the photo, I did not see the image on the Host in the monstrance, but did after reading the article.

I have also been reading about the Abbe de Nantes' feelings about Abp. Lefebvre stating that the Abbe felt Abp. Lefebvre was wrong to open a seminary at Econe, and expected him to join the crc in their accusation to PPVI. This is a paraphrase in my own worlds, so I may have forgotten important details.

And, for all that, I guess I don't get it. It seems to me that the Abbe's role in upholding Tradition is to create the accusations (the one on the CCC was especially helpful to me) and hope for a personal about-face from the Pope, and that Abp. Lefebvre's role was to ensure the Mass and Sacraments can still be had by the Faithful. This would be a reflection of the one body, with different members having their respective duties to uphold the Faith.

So, is it just human "emnity"?? I for one have been blessed to find the True Mass at all because of Abp. Lefebvre, and have tried to reorient my thinking about the New Catechism and recent papal encyclicals from the crc, as well as their books on Fatima.

Thank you as well for the fruits of your seven years of reading and research. They show and are a benefit to all list members.

Thank you also for the SSPV information. I never knew the specifics before.

Missy Farber

From: Rev. Joseph D. Hoffman ( Dear Griff,

I have read the on-line version of your book, and I must admit that I find it an excellent work. Is it possible to purchase printed copies? I think that it is outstanding both as a type of introduction to the 'traditionalist movement' for the neophyte, as well as an exceptionally interesting and balanced presentation of some of the history of the movement for the 'veterans.'

From: Lance Klein (

I attend ... a latin rite parish that practices the NO mass exclusively.

I was interested in your website because after not attending mass for many, many years I recently returned and was astounded by the changes -- most due to V-II. I'm also taken aback by how this parish seems a bit lax with respect to following the GIRM.

In a way, I think I chose an odd time to return to the church. They recently refurbished the santuary. Much of the work they did was needed and the results beautiful, but it bothered me to see the 100 year old high altar removed.

Though I have never looked into it in depth, it also bothers me that my diocese does not offer a Tridentine Mass at any its parishes.

In sum, it was nice to see I'm not the only person that questions some of the changes that have taken place in the past 30-40 years.

Thanks for taking the time to create your website.

From: Barbara ( Dear Griff,

It has been several weeks since I first read your book. At that time, all the information was quite overwhelming. I only partly understood some of the text, and some of the the information I didn't understand at all. Much of the information, however, was immediately understandable as it is based on basic Christian apologetics. Since that first reading I have been learning and reading from other sources, one of which is the Traditio list which you recommend in your book. Tonight I reread Chapters Seven through the Epilogue and would like to comment that your book has passed a very important and standard test: it grows with the reader. I was quite amazed at what I found in the pages I had previously read so carefully. I simply reread them with new eyes and a more informed mind, and I was rewarded with a deeper understanding. You have written a strong and informative book with hard words which nevertheless manages to strike a note of hope -- all done with an obviously Christian "pietas." I look forward to future rereadings.

B. Wyman

From Susan Maria Evans ( Dear Griff,

I have just surfed through your website and would like to congratulate you on your information; specifically the balanced outlook on the sspx! I thought you were a sede???

God bless you and your family.

Susan Evans

From: Jeff Mullins ( Griff,

Thanks for replying to my email. I found your web site by sheer luck or maybe it was divine providence. I was using a plain 'ole web search and your site was one of several and I just randomly choose yours. Once there though, I've hardly been anywhere else.

I would say Appendix 1 was the killer for me. It was shocking to see how V II has so blatantly violated sacred tradition and scripture. How Church leaders can get away with forcing people to attend the Novus Ordo and expecting people to beg and grovel before allowing an "Indult" mass is sickening.

There's only one Traditional mass offered here in Tokyo and that's only once a month. How generous of them!! So I'm moving back to the States in October. My family will come a few months later after I get all settled. Moving across the Pacific Ocean is a tad bit more complex that moving across town!! I'll probably end up in or around Baton Rouge, LA. There's one church that offers an "Indult" mass weekly and a couple of others that offer First Friday "Indults." There's also a SSPX chapel that offers a Sat. and Sun. weekly mass as well as a First Friday. This leads to my next question. I'm still a little scrupulous about attending a SSPX mass. If you could clear me up on this one I'd be grateful. Has JP II ever recinded his excommunication of the SSPX? If not, aren't they excommunicated then? If I can clear this up then I'm sure I'll be a member of this community. Thanks for your help and prayers. By the way, you've been blessed with the gift of prose so keep it up!

From: Raymond Antonini ( Dear Griff,

Thanks very much for doing what we all should have done - save Jim's site.

May God bless you!

From: Susan McNally (

I thank you whole heartedly for keeping my husband's website up and online. It was so important to him that it stay up. Unfortunately, he passed so quickly he never had time to teach me anything about keeping it. And I know very little about computers. It was only a miscommunication between me and the server that brought it down. I am so glad you have taken the time to restore it and respond to the many questions Jim used to get each week from visitors to the site. I could never do so. My main responsibility right now has to be for the 8 children I still have at home, and the homeschooling of 6 of them.

It has been a blessing to me to see how well liked my husband was online.

In Our Lady's Hands,
Susan McNally

From: Peter Kristof (Website: Dear Sir

I must commend you on a very insightful and informative website. I totally agree that Catholics must unite against the Modernist infection. However, I have met many SSPX and SSPV and Thuc-line priests and their petty egos are the main problem even to the detriment of the souls under their care. I have spent most of my life (although I am insignificant to many priests because I am rather poor) to propose a common front.

Although on occasion I attend a SSPX chapel, I do not interact out of fear that they realize I do not believe JP II is truly the Vicar of Christ. I also attend an eastern-rite parish with the same trepidation.

Nevertheless, your site has given me hope and encouraged me to pray even more for the victory of the Catholic Church over this horrible error of Modernism.

Please note that I will keep you in my prayers.

Peter Kristof

From: Charles H. Ivers. Dear Sir:

This is one of the most interesting and informative Traditional Catholic websites that I have encountered. I am reading The Resurrection of the Catholic Church now, but have not finished it. I have been a Traditional Catholic for about five years now, and appreciate knowing about all of the various groups. You have done an impartial and masterful job. Kudos! I expect to read every word on this website. Keep it up.

From: Greg King, Dayton, Ohio. Mr. Ruby,

I have read your tremendous book "THE RESURRECTION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH" and must complement you on your gallant effort to put it all together.

Can I find it in book form rather than on-line? I would love to distribute it to as many people as I can -- it is required reading!!!

I have personal questions that, similarly to you not being able to get an IMPRIMATUR, I cannot get from any of the "sides" that I know.

I briefly wrote to you a while back and told you I was an acquaintance of Fr. Cekada -- he is valuable for answers to many questions; unless they are those that he is "sided" against and you seem to be the greatest "tiebreaker" available.

From: Sylvia R. Conlon.

I am an old fashioned Roman Catholic who believes that the true Roman Catholic Church may be only in the hearts of older people (I am 70) and the Church of today is another Protestant Church who calls itself Catholic. It is surprising and encouraging that someone so much younger has a similar opinion. I have, over the the past thirty or forty years, read many Catholic papers and magazines to find that maybe I was wrong and prayed hard to know what was right. It seemed that the more I prayed the more information I found that there is something radically wrong in the Church.

While I do not want to be too critical, it seems that the Church is not the same Church that I was educated in and followed for so many years in the past.

Rather that ramble on too long I would like to say that I have been quite impressed with your site and will visit it often. in the future.

From: Anthony Sistrom. Dear Griff Ruby:

I was delighted to stumble on your website. I did not know that Rama Coomaraswamy and Mother Teresa were correspondents. Is your wife Filipina? [answer: yes] The Philippines is the most intensively evangelized country in the history of the Church. The Filipino diaspora has witnessed a living faith in places where Christianity has all but been abandoned (e.g., Rome). Did you have Raimundo Panikkar as a teacher at UCSB? [answer: no] The Church of my youth (Praise God) was one of truth and sacrifice. The post Vatican II Church is one of public relations and careerism.

Alice von Hildebrand became disenchanted with JPII when he announced his intention to canonize his predecessor, Paul VI, who as Cardinal Montini defied Pius XII's order not to negotiate with the Soviets. My disenchantment with JPII came when he elevated Avery Dulles to the cardinalate. Vide, Germain Grisez's Christian Moral Principles, Vol 1, p 896. Grisez shows how Dulles provided the theological rationale for the whole movement of dissent in the American Church. Dulles has powerful friends (i.e., Neuhaus, Weigel and Novak) who lobbied for his elevation. With kind regards and best wishes,

Sincerely, Anthony Sistrom

From: Robert Born.

I have just found you web site and am very interested in acquiring a printed version. Does a printed version exist? If so, where can I purchase it? [Answer: Yes! Here]

I have nothing against the SSPX group, especially since they don't teach sedisvacantis (sp?). I attend the True Mass at a parish which also has the English Mass. Since one cannot judge the Pope, I have a problem with condemning the Novus Ordo Mass per se, although I refuse to attend it except when it is the only Mass available. An example: I recently returned from a trip to the UK with a young member of my parish. His family, while almost always attending the traditional Mass, will go to the Novus Ordo (they call it English) Mass if they cannot get to the other. In London we could not find a tridentine Mass except SSPX, which my young friend refused to attend. To avoid scandal, and not confuse the boy, we went to an English Mass. It was very conservative, but did not please me.

I do not argue with your position, merely find the situation today very confusing for a 76 year old cradle Catholic!

Thank you and God Bless!

From: Peter.

I particularly liked your rabbit and duck analogy, hadn't heard that before but it makes sense. The church cannot be dead but is cannot be pieced together from the fragments as they appear today.

Like you I had been going to the Old Mass for a long time. Actually longer than you I think, I started in 1982. SSPX most most of that time but more recently any Tridentine Mass I could find.

I now live in Eastern Europe with my wife; we moved here from England recently for one year so our kids could see their grandparents and learn something of their culture and heritage.

I met my wife in Piccadily Circus London believe it or not and she loved the old mass as soon as I took her along. Would be a very rare story for a girl from the west but other cultures are not so decadent and affected by feminism as Americans and Western Europeans. She has never taken issue with the teaching on contraception for example and since she know that I'll stay with her she has no problem with having lots of kids.

Of course Tridentine Masses are not weekly where we live so we just drive to any rite going that isn't N.O. - Eastern Rite, SSPX (flies in from another country) or just say our Rosary.

What do you make of and Father Gruner? [Answer: Good priest; good information] Would you say he is the only relible source on Fatima or are there others? [Answer: He is the best authority on Fatima there is today.]

How much longer do you think we are going to have to wait before the duck comes back? I don't know about you but I am sick of Rabbit.

From: Jackie Mathews.

Mr. Ruby:

I providentially stumbled across an article on the Internet that you had written, and I just wanted to tell you that it was the best and most refreshing article that I can remember reading. I've printed it out and already read it three times.

I don't have the date on which you wrote it, but you were responding to something that had been written in Catholic Answers. In the article, you give a beautifully and clearly written outline of the chronology of events involving Fathers Kelly, Cekada, Dolan, and others, and you explain how the Society of St. Pius V came to be, and how some priests came to be connected with the CMRI group. I knew all the names, but only snippets of the details, and I was so happy to read the whole story.

It seemed so good to me to read your article, because I share your sentiments completely. Like most of us, I came from the Novus Ordo to the traditionalist movement, to which I am now totally committed. However, I have such love and affection and admiration for almost ALL traditionalist groups, and my grief is that they don't like each other. I subscribe to The Angelus, and I love the SSPX. I'm so glad they're there. I subscribe to The Reign of Mary, and I love the CMRI. I'm so glad they're there. I subscribe to The Roman Catholic and get newsletters from the SSPV and from their beautiful Sisters, and I love them. I'm so glad we have them. I attend daily Mass just 10 minutes from my home, offered by an independent traditionalist priest, and I'm so glad he's there. Do you see what I mean?

Most of these groups say such terrible things about each other, practically accusing the others of not being Catholic. The statement of yours that I liked most of all was this: "The seeming feud between [Dolan and Kelly]...may provide the basis of a very healthy competition which has already given to the Church two more fine traditional seminaries and many vocations to the priesthood and religious life." Wow! That's my feeling exactly. I have been wanting to think of these different traditional groups as we would have thought of the Benedictines, the Dominicans, and Franciscans just fifty years ago: as simply different families within the Church, not as warring rivals. I loved your reference to Paul and Barnabas.

I have studied much the issue of sedevacantism and the Thuc-line consecrations. I don't consider myself a sedevacantist (yet), but I am certainly open to the fact that they may be right. It is hard to find a flaw in their argument. In my study of the Thuc-line consecrations, I found that no article seemed objective. The articles written by CMRI priests concluded that the consecrations were valid; the articles written by the SSPX or others said they were not valid. I want to believe they are valid, but some tiny bit of doubt does linger in my mind. A little less doubt, though, after knowing the information from your article: that Fathers Cekada and Sanborn began skeptically studying the issue and even consulted with Bishop Castro-Mayer, before coming the conclusion that the Thuc-line consecrations were valid. That's something I didn't know. I was recently so disheartened to read in The Roman Catholic an article by Bishop Kelly in which he said about the CMRI group something to the effect that they could certainly not be considered a traditional Roman Catholic order because they had Thuc-line priests. Your explanation of his original rejection of Thuc-line priests was that it was an organizational decision, not a question of validity of Orders.

The traditional priest whose Masses I attend, by the way, feels similarly to the way we feel. I have no doubt been influenced by his outlook. He has no grudge against any of the traditional groups. He says that our task is only to live as true Roman Catholics, attending the true Catholic Mass, and we should let another Council somewhere down the road sort all of this out. God does not require of us to know absolutely whether John Paul II is a valid pope or not.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for your fine article. When I looked up your name on the Internet, I found a whole slew of other articles that you had written, which I plan to read over the next few weeks. You are amazingly articulate. You can explain something so clearly--with a minimum of excess words. You get right to the point. That's what a good writer is supposed to do--and what readers appreciate.

Thanks so much.

From: Dave.

I read "Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church" online. Griff Ruby does a very good job detailing who's who and the organizations or societies they adhere to. I found it extremely helpful and informative. It is also a very "easy" book to read. I recommend it highly to anyone, especially someone new to the Traditional Catholic Church.

From: Fr. Armand, FSSP.

Dear Griff,

Thank you for emailing me.

I was very touched that you wished to offer me your book The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church.

I have been reading through some of the chapters, and I think like you that it is important to try and give our contemporaries a general outlook on the various traditional trends.

Thank you also for the nice dedicace : we traditional priests certainly need to be supported by those who understand our vocation.

Please send my regard to your wife,

In union of prayer,

From: From J. D. [To the Vademecum Webmaster]

I just finished reading a great book on the Traditional Roman Catholic movement by Griff Ruby. I believe you and Mr. Ruby are of a similar mind, in that he views SSPX, SSPV, Independent Priests/bishops, and Indult priests to be the Roman Catholic church. He is of the thesis that Lumen Gentium, when signed by Pope Paul VI, essentially did two things: first, he in effect, resigned part of his office, in that the Church was no longer Monarchial in structure, but collegial. Secondly, by having the Mystical Body of Christ 'subsist' in the Catholic church where elements of grace and sanctification exist 'outside' the Catholic church -- this in effect, separated the Vatican Institution from being identical with the Mystical Body of Christ. Just think of the implications: parts of the Vatican Institution are NOT part of the Mystical Body of Christ -- in a formal sense, otherwise, Lumen Gentium would have used "est" instead of "subsistet". While most people interpret the 'elements outside the Church' part of Lumen Gentium to mean the Protestants, Jews, and others, Griff Ruby interprets it to be SSPX, SSPV and independents. But I digress. It's a great book, in that it captures the history of the Traditional Roman Catholic movement, and you can figure out the rest by the title: "The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church".

VADEMECUM replies:

I am somewhat familiar with this book (I haven't read it) and with the author. He writes extraordinarily well and while I might not agree with him on every jot and tittle, I can appreciate his work and wish I could get the chance to sit down and read this book one of these days.

Actually, I can't think of a single group or apostolate with which I would agree on "every jot and tittle" --- not the SSPX, not TRADITIO, not the various sede vacante bishops, not the so-called "Feeneyites", though I can see much merit in these and other traditionalist groups.

As I have said in this space previously, I do not profess to have all the answers, and neither could I point someone else in a certain direction and say "go to them, they DO have all the answers". That is why I do not knit my brows over such things as supplied jurisdiction, the fine points of Canon Law (on which even canonists disagree!), whether and under what circumstances one should choose "one group of traditionalists" over another, and so on. I think it is far more intelligent, and far more honest, to admit that you don't have the only solution, than to stake out one stance and behave as though you do.

Sometimes you just have to do the best you can under your own circumstances, and leave the rest in the Hands of God.

Incidentally, if anyone wishes to purchase the book, you may do so by visiting this page:

From: John A. De Fede, Esq. Major, U.S. Army (Retired).

Dear Mr. Ruby,

I have read your book. It was truly magnificent. Thank you for your efforts. I know it must have taken a great deal of effort. (Just reading Lumen Gentium must have taken days, nay, weeks of effort!)

I'm not sure the current leadership of the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican Institution) would believe that they, in the person of the pope, have relinquished part of the office -- de jure. [response: I never claimed they ever would admit the truth about their new position -- de jure -- only that it really is their new position, and all the denials on their part would never change that, only a complete revocation of Vatican II would.] I'm sure you would get a lot more agreement that -- de facto, this pope sees his role as much broader than leader of the Roman branch of the Catholic Church, and finds room for Anglicans, Orthodox, and even Lutherans for his 'primus inter pares' role. And, because I believe JPII to be intellectually honest, probably acknowledge that he is the pope of a (then) 15 year tradition, or alternatively, that the word tradition no longer means unchanging legacy, but rather -- crescit eundo -- it grows as it goes.

Nevertheless -- research is excellent, and it provides the best explanation I have heard to date, to explain the current crisis. Of course this pope let Castro-Mayer untouched! He also left Rembert Weakland and Raymond Hunthausen untouched! After all, he is only a brother bishop, not a monarch! He is trying to exercise collegial leadership -- and it would work if there weren't so many perfidious (I'm choosing the word carefully) bishops. Our bishops are not 'fortes in fide' because they were chosen because they had lost or little faith to begin with!

I attend the TLM exclusively now, much to the chagrin of family -- but I wish to die a true son of the Catholic church in which I was born and raised -- that means I want Extreme Unction and a Requiem Mass.

I will bend your ear some more with some 'horror stories' some other day.

(By the way -- do you know anyone with a copy of "What Catholics believe" series. It was fantastic.) [answer: Sorry, no I don't.]

From: Mario Derksen.

Dear Griff,

I want to thank you for this wonderful gem you have given to the Catholic world. I mean your book. It is such a joy to read and extremely informative.

Thank you very much.

From: Nicholas P.

Thank you for writing your well researched book, "The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church", and for making it available for reading on line.

I've spent several months mulling over your theory regarding the infamous phrase in "Constitutio Dogmatica De Ecclesia." I've looked up the definitions of "subsist", "in", "is", "subsistio", and "subsistere" along with a few others as well. Given the context in which they were written, I have not found any definition or interpretation of those two words other than what you've proposed. Yet there was still this nagging feeling that somehow the phrase "subsists in" could be interpreted as "is". (Odd isn't it, that once again we're wondering what the meaning of the word "is" is?) Then it finally occurred to me. As it turns out, I was subconsciously adding three words after "subsists in". Those three words are "the form of", so that it would read "This Church...subsists in the form of the Catholic Church". If those three words had been added, it would have, at least to my understanding, meant the same thing as "This the Catholic Church". I admit however, that my knowledge of grammar is poor, so I would welcome a correction if needed.

Nevertheless, those three words were not added, so the document must be, as you state, interpreted literally as written. The point to telling you this is that afterward it occurred to me that many of the bishops at the Second Vatican Council might also have been adding those words in their minds without realizing it. When they read "subsists in the Catholic Church", they may have been thinking "subsists (exists) in the form of the Catholic Church" (some of them might still be thinking of it that way). Had they realized what they were doing, they might have attempted to add those words in an effort to correct the document.

Not that they would have necessarily succeeded. The more devious among them it seems, deliberately phrased it as is, in an attempt to say that the Catholic (Universal) Church is really made up of all of the religions of the world, with the Roman Catholic Faith being just one part of that one - world church. What they actually stated and accomplished however, is something entirely different.

They did indeed create a new church. But since they did not explicitly incorporate any other church into it except the One Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, no other religion belongs to it except maybe in the fantasies of so many in the hierarchy.

So what became of that hierarchy? Despite having read your book I still don't have a clear picture of the answer. They clearly admitted to being the governors of this new church (i.e. ..."which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him"). Can they be the governors of a false church and still remain in the Roman Catholic Church? It wouldn't seem so unless one could reasonably show that although they govern the new church, they aren't actually members of it. That I think is a bit of a stretch since they, as the authorities of an existing Church made up another church, made themselves governors of the new church, and stuck the original Church inside the new one. Being members of a false church is an unquestionably schismatic act and by being members of such, it would seem they have excommunicated themselves latae sententiae. One could argue invincible ignorance on their part but if I'm not mistaken, that only applies to one's eternal disposition, not one's material union with the Church.

Since the theory regarding the phrase "subsists in" is yours to begin with, I would appreciate your own analysis to the above questions. Finally, your theory is either the most gifted and brilliant insight into what has become of our Church, or it's the nuttiest excuse for disobedience in the history of the Church. I believe it is the former. Facts may not be denied. A council was called. It was by explicit declaration not an infallible council. It wrote the document "Lumen Gentium". That document stated "This Church...subsists in the Catholic Church." It is grammatically impossible for that statement to refer to a single entity. It is only possible for it to be speaking of two entities. What you've proposed then, seems the only reasonable explanation.

Thank you for all you've done and for taking the time to read my letter.

May God bless you and your family.

From: NoraLee.

Greetings all:

I finally coughed up and bought The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church, by a guy named Griff Ruby. I was surprised when the small publishing house automatically, without me clicking something extra, overnighted (and I mean really overnighted) the book to me. (I had Gateway, blech phewy, overnight me some RAM for a job I was doing-I wouldn't actually own one of those substandard pieces of crap. I wouldn't even put Linux on it- Their version of overnight was 5 days).

I read two sentences and I laugh. I read two sentences and I say "Amen." I read two more sentences, and I go "Yeeaaaah Booooyyeeee."

Griff, did you see my interview in the Wall Street Journal. I was quoted as saying "I didn't leave Rome. Rome left me" It is reminiscent of "it is the modernist who have set up a brand new rival Church...."

As Jaime is wont to say, "Spot on, mate."

I highly recommend this read to all. It underscores what some of us maintain that if we could stop shooting at each other, my goodness, we would be a force to deal with.

Many blessings,

From: Glen.

Mr. Ruby:

So pleased to see some new addn's to your web site! ( Your site has been a God-send. I also see your contributions to the RomanCatholics yahoo group. Hoping you add more material to your web site soon!


From: Mark S.

Mr. Ruby,

I have been reading an on-line version of your book. Your reading of the import of "This Church . . . subsists in the Catholic Church" from Lumen Gentium is brilliant! It has clarified my thinking as follows: 1) The Church of Christ (i.e., the "This Church" from the above quote) is different from the "Catholic Church" - which, as defined by the Council, means the Vatican Institution, since it is apparently different from this Church, i.e the Church of Christ; 2) Infallibility, etc., as powers only legitimately reposing in the Church of Christ (again using the Council's language), is not a power possessed by the Vatican Institution; and, 3) therefore, the power of excommunication - which would be a power only legitimately reposing in the Church of Christ - is not among the powers of the Vatican Institution. Hence, the Vatican Institution could not (if it has?) excommunicate the Society of Pius X (or any traditional Catholic group) from the Church of Christ.

There is no need for me (or anyone) to wonder whether the Novus Ordo regime is the Church of Christ, what you and I would describe as the Catholic Church, since they themselves have said they are not! What hours of torture over that question you have brought to an end for me. How clear it is, now. Thank you. I no longer need to question as to whether I am a heretic for rejecting the pronouncements of the "NO" regime in my heart. They no longer have the power to pronounce me a heretic! They themselves have said it. If they are not co-extensive with the Church, they cannot tell me I am outside of the Church of Christ, since they recognize that the Church of Christ extends beyond their narrow borders. They can't kick me out of the sandbox by throwing me out of their little pail! The sandbox is bigger than they are!

Wonderful. Brilliant. And I say, why didn't I think of that?

I look forward to reading more of your book.

From: John H.

Dear Griff Ruby,

Thank you for your book & website. I have been checking these matters for years & am only this year finally & totally convinced of the Traditional position... I think you have the most balanced view of the situation... I certainly don't blame anyone who hasn't got it yet as it is so incredible. I have a question... How do we treat Novus Ordo churches?... Probably The Lord is not there, but there is doubt, in the, say, most conservative churches, where He may be present... It seems terrible, if so, that He is so abandoned.

Have you any thoughts???? Anyway God bless you & your good work...

From: Lily D.

Dear Mr. Ruby:

My name is Lily D. I just read your book "The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church," and I would like to tell you it is an outstanding piece of work!! There is a particular chapter that talks about Home Aloners, so how funny that I had been confronted by such a group in the last few days. I was shopping on Ebay for some Traditional Catholic books, and I sent the seller a question about the book he was selling. It was none other than one of the biggest leaders of the home aloners, who directed me to his web site. Their philosophy was so discouraging, that I almost thought I would just stay away from attending any traditional Catholic church, or any church for that matter. I had become tired of all the bickering that goes on among these groups. After reading your book, it put everything into perspective! How all traditionals have the same goals, but just have different ideas on how to get there, and also, despite the bickering, they all celebrate the Mass in the same way; unlike the NO (Nervous Order Mess). You speak of the Traditional movement's continuing growth. All of this was just so encouraging and uplifting to me. Again, it has put everything into perspective, and I will continue to attend the Mass with CMRI as usual. By the way, your book also helped me to understand who these home aloners are, and how heretical their philosophy is.

Keep up the good fight for the True Roman Catholic Church!

Again, I tip my hat to you on an outstandingly written book: "The Resurrection of The Roman Catholic Church." My friend is next in line to read it. Like my sister and I, she and her entire family are sedevacantists; even the youngest daughter who is 17!

God Bless you!!!

From: Michael Cain

Dear Griff,

First of all, congratulations on writing one of the most lucid, understandable and concise compendiums on the Traditional Catholic cause that I have ever read in your The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church. It answered so many questions for us including where to relocate. We had hesitated on the Spokane area until reading your book and, on a recent visit there I discovered such true devotion and thoroughly Catholic reverence in a chapel and community that edifies the Faith of my youth. I thank you again for clearing up many misconceptions. Once we are settled in Spokane I plan on saving up and purchasing one of your books every few months to send to friends. You have made it so clearly simple and I love your analogies and explanations.

The Daily Catholic is a thoroughly Traditional publication which was conservative Novus Ordo until our epiphany in 2000 on a pilgrimage to Lourdes. Returning to the states we shut down the site to research, study, pray and go back to basics, and entirely revamped the web site, starting back up in late summer of 2001 as totally Traditional. While many Novus Ordinarians or, and I loved your phrase NOCPOG's - members of the Novus Ordo Church of the People of God [Note: the acronyms "NOCPOG" and "POG" do not occur in my book, only the full length expression, and even that is only used as a reference to the organization as a whole, never to individual persons.], dropped us like a hot-potato thinking we had gone off the deep end by rejecting John Paul II's Modernist ways, many NOCPOGs are still lurking and we have discovered more than a few are coming around and leaving the NOM parishes. I would like to ask if 1) you would like to submit articles for The Daily Catholic since the clarity with which you explain things would be so easy for them to comprehend [Yes I would, see here.], or 2) could we have permission to reprint some of your points from various chapters [Yes, that is also given.]?

The latter would be submitted to you for your approval before we did, but I think it would go a long way toward not only helping clear up the murky waters so many Novus Ordinarians find themselves treading, but also help many in the Traditional movement better understand what makes their fellow Traditionalists tick. While the sedevacantist position becomes more and more inevitable, the word and connotation itself has been much misunderstood and your book went a long way in eliminating the stigma associated with that description. I have long prayed that the Traditional Catholic cause could be united and I find in your book one of the greatest examples of this. We have been carrying articles by sedevacantists and non-sedevacantists without identifying them as such. In fact, by not affixing our affiliation to any particular group we have grown larger with readership from those affiliated with the SSPX, the Indult, CMRI, SSPV, many independents, and, of course, disgruntled and confused Novus Ordinarians.

Of course the first option - original articles by you - would be a preference, but understanding your menu might already be full, perhaps you have articles that could be recycled and would be of interest to our readers.

Over the past few years I have heard many rumors and your book was a breath of fresh air in putting flesh to facts that dissolves many vicious rumors, especially the controversy over the Thuc line of bishops. I find it ironic that in his last years His Excellency was exiled at Our Lady of the Ozarks in Carthage by the Vietnamese Congregation of Mary Mother Co-Redemptrix where they most likely tried to "deprogram" him and coerce a "confession" out of this poor man in his old age. I say ironic because it was at this same seminary where I spent six years from 1957 to 1963 and was fed nothing but solid Catholic doctrine by the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate with a curriculum that had not been altered until after the close of the council. It is no coincidence that five years after they changed the curriculum, the seminary dried up and closed down in 1970. Looking back I was blessed that I left after my Novitiate year in 1964 from the Oblates' Immaculate Heart of Mary Novitiate in Alton, Illinois. Had I continued on I would have been ordained in Paul VI's rite and who knows. Yes, truly, there but for the grace of God go I. Now we believe He is bringing us full circle to the fullness of the Faith as both my wife and I were raised on in the 50's during our formative years in Catholic grade school with the holy nuns and supportive parents who lived their Faith. Deo gratias!

Again, kudos on an excellent book which I had not heard much about until earlier this summer. It needs to be circulated far and wide and we will be glad to promote it with your articles. Please pray on our request as we all seek discernment in seeking ways to unite the Traditional cause to offset further deterioration within NOCPOG, all for the greater honor and glory of God and for the salvation of souls. God bless and keep on this festive feast of Our Lady's birthday. Sancta Maria, Sedes Sapientiae, ora pro nobis.

Yours in the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts,

Michael Cain, ARC, editor, The Daily Catholic

From: Jeffrey Smith

Dear Mr. Ruby,

I purchased your book The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church after reading the review by Mr. Cain in The Daily Catholic. I received the book just a couple of days ago and I can hardly put it down.

I feel like my blinders have finally been removed. Your thesis makes incredible sense. The separation of the Vatican institution and the Roman Catholic Church is the only viable explanation for what has happened these past 40 years.

I have just placed an order for a second copy for a friend. I told my FSSP priest about the book and he is eager to read it as well. He, too, laments what has become of the Vatican institution but has great hope for the Roman Catholic Church. I'm hoping to finish reading your book tonight or tomorrow night. It is really a compelling work.

Thank you for the great gift! My almighty God continue to bless you in your efforts.

Sincerely Yours in Our Lord and The Immaculata,

From: Chris Bates

Dear Mr Ruby:

My name is Chris Bates and I am new to Traditional Catholicism. It has only been a few years since I attended my first TLM, but I knew righ then & there that God is/was the centre of that Mass. I was completely hooked!! Words cannot adequately say how grateful I am for your book, "The Resurrection of the Catholic Church." It truely is a God send for the time we are going through!! Please keep up the excellent work!!

Ad Jesuam per Mariam,

From: Shawn K. Newell

Dear Mr. Ruby,

Thank you for you outstanding website. The amount and depth of information is most helpful to those of us who are attempting to find our places.

My earlier search for the Church parallels yours in some ways, only I ended up in a Western Rite Orthodox parish. I eventually stepped over into what I thought was the Catholic Faith, looking for the Church of Chesterton, Belloc, and my convert grandfather. Obviously the Novus Ordo did not satisfy these longings. After some time away from the whole thing, I returned to the practice of Orthodoxy. I never stopped reading Catholic literature, however, though I could not imagine leaving my parish. I probably would have been content, but my parish dissolved and I began to think "Could this be God trying to tell me something?"

I am a bit confused by the various points of view within Tradition. What is the process for becoming a Traditional Catholic? I am baptized, I was received into the Novus Ordo (for what that is worth), and I have followed a sacramental tradition (albeit not the Roman Catholic) for some time. I would hate to start from complete zero, especially as I am somewhat isolated here and I am not able to travel long distances for frequent classes. It would be nice if there were a way to be received outright or study from a distance under the guidance of a wise priest. I do not wish to appear impatient, but I feel a great vacuum in my heart, a need for the sacraments, and a fear that if I were to be hurt or killed I would have no one to look after the state of my soul.

I would be grateful for any guidance you might offer. thanks again for your fine work.

In Christ,

From: Gregory John

I've started reading your book and it is awesome. The crisis in the Church stopped bothering me when I realized I could to to an independent chapel. Now I hope and pray for the best, but I am much better peace. It is no longer a chore to go to Mass. Praise God for the true Church and for people like you that can put such a puzzle of apostacy together.

You have a gift.

From: Bruce Wilder


Just finished reading the online version of your book "The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church". Enjoyed it so much that I went to and ordered a copy to reread and for future reference. Also, thanks your recommendation, I purchased and watch the "companion" video "What We Have Lost..." and found that to be equally enlightening.

After finding my way out of the "Church of the People of God" and into the Roman Catholic Church about two years ago, I began my own investigation into the crisis, which I perceived as being wholly within the True Church, and found myself coming up with more questions than answers. After reading your well reasoned theory of the "Great Detachment", I realized that I had found the answers to most of my questions.

Having been a computer programmer for the past 20 years, I was relieved to finally find someone who has put it all together using sound logic and reasoning skills. Nice work! You clearly got more out of your computer science degree than I got out of mine.

From: Brian J. Coyne

Hello Griff,

Firstly, let me congratulate you on one of the very best books written by anyone in the Traditionalist movement (I hate using the term Traditionalist, I'm just a Roman Catholic like my parents). I bought several copies of your book and gave them to people as gifts, as soon as it came out. Please remember to pray for the soul of Rev. Fr. Gommar DePauw, JCD. A brilliant man and such a loss to the "Traditional" movement.

From: Gabrielle


Just wanted to let you know that I received your book a little over a week ago. I've been trying desperately to read it, however, when it came in the mail, my husband saw it, and immediately grabbed it, and said "Oh, this looks good!" ...Well, so much for my getting a chance to read it...<g>

I've been reading it, when he's asleep, since he works nights, and sleeps I've been sneaking the book away from his bedside, and reading it while he's asleep.

I'm not getting as much reading as I'd like to, but I wanted to let you know that I'm very much enjoying the book, and am fascinated with all the information you have in it.

Thank you for letting me know you had written it! It's wonderful!


HERE ARE THE AMAZON.COM REVIEWS OF MY BOOK, The Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church

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